The fourth issue is about the salaries of civil servants, in particular during the war. What kind of work do you need to do to get 260 thousand hryvnias a month? Who in the Kyiv City State Administration earns more than Vitali Klitschko? And why haven’t the Verkhovna Rada and the NACP switched to the new grading system? Viktor Maziarchuk, Head of the Center for Fiscal Policy Research, and Roman Slobodyan, public finance expert, discuss the reform of civil servants’ remuneration.
How civil servants' salaries are formed
Roman
Good afternoon, dear listeners and viewers. I am pleased to welcome you to our podcast “Budget Talks”, which is produced with the support of ISAR Ednannia. And today we will talk about a topical and lively topic, which is the subject of a lot of discussions – the salaries of civil servants. It is especially relevant when they are paid during martial law. Our traditional expert Viktor Maziarchuk is with me today.
Victor.
Good afternoon, Roman. Good afternoon, colleagues.
Roman.
And I would like to move on to the first logical question. Victor, we understand that salaries are very important. But not all of our listeners understand how it is formed. I mean, it doesn’t come from somewhere else. It’s our money. Could you tell us how the salaries of civil servants and local governments are formed?
Viktor.
Everything is very simple. In our case, these are regulations adopted either by the Parliament or the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine. If we speak in the simplest possible language, there are two parts. The first is stable, i.e. fixed. This is a fixed salary, a longevity allowance, which, in principle, depends on certain things, such as, for example, your position, how many years you have been in the civil service. The more years you’ve been in the civil service, the higher the percentage of this supplement. And there is the so-called variable part, which is bonuses. They can be from 0 to infinity, conditionally. We have recorded premiums of 700% in previous years. And every year, at the beginning of the year, usually in January or at the end of the previous year, the government approves the salary scheme. Specifically, who should receive how much.
Roman.
Does this have anything to do with the state budget?
Viktor.
Of course it does.
Roman
I mean, it’s not something so abstract. So this figure is always determined?
Viktor.
The amount of a person’s official salary is determined. That is, the base salary, which is calculated and then paid out based on these calculations, and included in the state budget.
About the biggest mistake
Roman
In principle, we understand the logic. Now we want some specifics. Could you give us a specific figure, for example, how much does the Minister of Digital Transformation earn, or the MP whom everyone loves and controls, or the mayor, if we take a slightly lower level? What does this variation depend on?
Viktor
We’ll talk about numbers, of course. I love numbers, I love them very much. This is what we are working with. So let’s start with something more interesting. In preparation for today’s conversation, I looked at the highest salary for the last period, starting in 2015, for the last 9 years, and whether it was paid from the state or local budget. And I was surprised. Do you know why? Because the amount is UAH 48 million 293 thousand 227. In one year, the person received it from the office of the Deputy Prime Minister, the Minister of Digital Transformation.
Roman
So it wasn’t him who received this salary?
Viktor
The Chief Specialist of the Secret Department received it from his department back in 2020.
Roman
Is it for the word “secret” that they pay so much extra?
Viktor
No, it was a technical mistake that the person made. He recorded the amount, but did not put a comma in the amount, and, accordingly, he was charged this amount. And the Deputy Prime Minister does not receive much. In 2020, he received almost 600,000 UAH, which is an average of 50,000 UAH per month, and in 2023, almost 81,000 UAH per month.
Roman
The minister would be surprised if he watched or listened to our podcast and found out how much his subordinates get paid.
Viktor
You know, there are many such mistakes, and this is a big problem. Why? Because when you take data… And where do we take data from? In our work, we took and downloaded all the declarations that civil servants and representatives of local governments submit to the NACP. Everyone who submits a declaration. We have almost 10 million declarations in our database.
Roman
Just to clarify, how long did it take you to download and upload them?
Viktor
It took us a long time to upload them. Then we did additional checks to make sure that all declarations were there. Because some of them were technically missing. We have recently discovered that some declarations have started to disappear from public access for some reason. We will find out what the reason is on Monday. Maybe the reason is quite trivial – people belong to the security and defense sector, they are simply removed from public access, and this is normal. In preparation for today’s podcast, we took 4 million declarations for 2020, 2021, 2022 and some of those submitted for 2023. And today we will talk a little bit about the numbers.
Roman
That’s what we’re here for.
How much do mayors earn and who in the Kyiv City State Administration earns more than Klitschko?
Viktor
We’re here today with a tablet and a computer on purpose, because there are a lot of numbers. If we talk about the mayor, the city of Ternopil, a beautiful city, Serhiy Nadal earned, by the way, more than the deputy prime minister. In 2020, he earned an average monthly salary of UAH 75,000, in 2021 – UAH 113,000, and in 2022 – UAH 72,000.
Roman
Could you clarify? If the minister receives from the state budget, then the mayor is financed not from the state budget, but from the local budget?
Viktor
Yes, from the local budget. He gets his salary, just like other local government employees, from local budgets. Yes, this is a very correct, good point. If we look at all mayors, and there were a lot of them in the sample, the average figures are as follows: their salaries for 2020-2023 ranged from UAH 45,000 to 61,000 per month. And if we talk about the maximum and minimum, then the Monastyryshche community of Cherkasy region stood out. Over 2 years, during the war, the salary of Oleksandr Tyshchenko, the mayor, increased very much. In the first year of the war, it increased by almost 40% – from UAH 1 million to UAH 1 million 400 thousand. This is 112,000 UAH per month.
In 2022, the mayor of the capital earned an average of 75.5 thousand UAH. Kyiv has 4 or 5 million inhabitants, while the glorious city of Ternopil has 10 times less. Although the mayor’s salary is not the highest in the Kyiv City State Administration.
Roman
Is there a hidden specialist again?
Viktor
No such fantastic things have been identified there. His chief of staff has a slightly higher salary, a couple thousand. But still a little higher. That’s why the mayor is good, but there is a person who gets more than Vitali Klitschko.
Roman
I think there are always people who can earn more than the head of the city. Officially, of course, it is important to clarify.
Viktor
People’s deputies. This is a very interesting question. Later we will move on to a very provocative question about who in the Verkhovna Rada gets a lot. When I saw the figures, I was just very surprised. These are not people’s deputies. Their average salary is between 40,000 and 44,000 hryvnias. They have a slightly different system there. They get paid as a deputy, as a committee head, and so on. They have part of their salary deducted for not attending meetings. This was introduced a few years ago, which is quite correct. If you are absent from work, you don’t get anything.
About the new remuneration system
Roman
But I still wanted to understand whether the salaries are the same, for example, if we take the specialty of a financier or an accountant (I am personally close to this position) and compare it by ministry. In the same Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Economy of Ukraine? As I understand it, they should have the same functionality. Are there any criteria on which the payment of this salary depends? It is also possible to give details about territorial divisions. For example, the tax service: there is a central office, there are branch offices, is there any variation if the functions are the same?
Viktor
The variation was very strong until the beginning of this year. Now, most likely, there will be no such variation, because a new remuneration system has been introduced, linked to job categories and grades. If you take the same positions in the Antimonopoly Committee, the State Audit Service of Ukraine, the Accounting Chamber, and the Ministry of Finance of Ukraine, the difference for a chief specialist can be two times as much in the same year. For example, the salary of a chief specialist at the State Audit Service and the Antimonopoly Committee is around UAH 20,000 per month. The salary of a chief specialist at the Accounting Chamber and the Ministry of Finance is twice as high, respectively. In both places, people perform functions. For example, if we compare the Accounting Chamber and the State Audit Service, the level of salaries is twice as different. This is probably not entirely fair.
Roman
Whose salary is higher?
Viktor
Of course, the Accounting Chamber is higher in status, it is clear, it is a constitutional body and so on. That’s why there is a disparity. And what did they achieve before? There were a few basic key things: if the official salary is a fixed thing, there is interest, accruals for years of service are the same for everyone, plus or minus, then due to bonuses and other additional payments, they had more variability. There were cases when, as I said, 600%, 300%, 400% of the bonus. There was even a public scandal in 2019, when the Ministry of Economy published bonuses for the Minister and his deputies, everyone realized that this system, which was supposed to work and which they wanted to change in previous years, namely in 2015, when there was a reform of the civil service and civil servants’ salaries, did not work. The system of high salaries and high bonuses remained the same. What was the logic behind it? A person should receive 70% of a fixed and stable guaranteed salary. This includes the base salary and other allowances. And, accordingly, 30% should be variable bonuses. But we had the opposite. We had 30% fixed, and 70%, respectively, at the discretion of the management. Everyone was satisfied with the situation that civil servants seemed to receive little, but in fact it was very bad, because a person working for the state should receive a decent salary and do their job well. This means, firstly, that they should be able to be held accountable, and secondly, that the best people should be hired for this position. Therefore, when salaries differ by 25% or 30% in institutions of the same level, the question is: where is the justice? When a deputy minister’s salary is conditionally higher than the minister’s. Because it was decided that everyone is asking about ministers’ salaries, everyone is interested, so let’s not pay them high salaries. It’s not politically advantageous, right? Especially during the war. So I would really like to see us start talking honestly about salaries, about how people who work for the state should be paid high salaries. Yes, the war is an important factor that affects this. Then we need to come out and say honestly: friends, we cannot afford, for example, a salary of 150,000 hryvnias for civil servants of any category. That’s it. And not to set a salary of 50,000 UAH per month, but in fact people get 175,000 UAH or 250,000 UAH. And there are some people who get more.
Are top officials paid fairly during the war?
Roman
I still miss a little bit of scandal in our conversation.
Victor
Are you taking me to the scaffold?
Roman
How are these awards formed? Since the number of people and vacancies are announced at the beginning of the year, does any amount of this money remain, or if, for example, a vacancy is not filled, where does this money go?
Viktor
If you want a scandal, there will be a scandal. My favorite is the Accounting Chamber. The salaries of both members and employees of the Accounting Chamber, including the staff, are formed in the state budget. The total amount is set in the budget as a single figure. And then what happens? For example, there should be 700 people on the staff, a little more – 711 people. In fact, there are 230 people less. That is, a third of the staff is vacant, but budgeted (the funds were available until this year. Since this year, the situation has changed a little, but the funds are planned for these positions). If there are no people, but the funds are available from month to month, there is an amount of unused funds. Both in the Accounting Chamber and in other ministries. For example, in the Prosecutor General’s Office, as of December 1 last year, unused funds for salaries were more than UAH 900 million.
Roman
900 million hryvnias? Phenomenal amount
Viktor
At the end of the year, the amount of unused funds there was around 0. They used everything.
Roman
In what month?
Viktor
In the 12th, the effect of December, of course. This is what happens accordingly. The amount of unused funds accumulates, and then everyone is given either bonuses or financial assistance or other things. How is the salary also formed? It depends on the manager (or the head of the institution, depending on the person’s position, or the head of the structural unit), they submit their proposals. You can get from 0 to large amounts. If we look at this systemic problem, it has been observed for years. That’s why we created our Dashboard, which, by the way, we will advertise.
Roman
I just wanted to summarize this.
Viktor
I understand. We update monthly information on the amount of money paid for salaries for all institutions, except for the security and defense sector. And you can see, for example, how much money the Ministry of Health has not used for certain budget programs. Or, as a colleague from the Ministry of Economy wrote, as there were examples: “Oh, we have so many unused funds, and we are not paid bonuses. We are sitting on a bare salary. I’ll go talk to our accountants.”
Roman
Was this happening before?
Viktor
It was last fall. We don’t know now because we don’t have updated data yet. In January, we will have it, and we will update it accordingly. I understand that they are coming soon. Therefore, we will update the information until 2024.
Who earns more: how much women and men earn in Ukraine
Roman
We will be happy to monitor and I encourage everyone to get involved, in particular, to see how our funds are used. I would like to move on to another very interesting question. Maybe I’m interested, I don’t know, you like numbers, so I’ll give you some data on gender. In August 2023, Yulia Svyrydenko, the Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Economy of Ukraine, stated that the difference between the salaries of men and women in Ukraine has decreased by 7.4% over the past 7 years. Also, if we take, for example, the European Union, where we are rapidly moving and trying to become full members: the European Commission recently published official statistics that the average gender pay gap is 13%. They exclude Ukraine here for the time being, which means that for every euro that a man earns, a woman earns only 0.87 euro cents. I have a question: has the Center for Fiscal Policy Research researched this topic and do you have such data?
Viktor
We have the data, but not yet.
Roman
But we won’t publish it.
Victor
We have the data, we will give you everything. Give us a little time, really. We have 10 million declarations of civil servants. Now we have preliminary data, because we need to work on it in more detail, to show different sections. I hope that by the end of April, perhaps, we will have a big analytics on salaries, including a big component on gender.
Roman
This is very interesting and important, by the way, because few people do gender breakdowns.
Viktor
Well, there are technical issues, so the numbers are not final. I make a disclaimer, which may be plus or minus, but it shows the general trend. Why? Because this data is based on one million declarations of civil servants only. There are no local government officials or other persons here. So I can agree or disagree with Ms. Deputy Prime Minister. I disagree with her thesis regarding top management. Female executives earn more than male executives. I was really surprised too. If you look at the overall structure, not just the top executives, but everyone. So, in the overall structure, 45% of all declarations, do you think, are by men or women?
Roman
I think it’s men.
Viktor
Yes, men. There are more women and, accordingly, it completely coincides with the overall picture. The average salary for all civil servants in 2022: men – 30 thousand 400 UAH, women – 19 thousand 900 UAH. There is a big difference. The average salary for managers is UAH 91,700 for men and UAH 92,000 for women, with women earning a little more.
Heads of structural units, namely departments: men – UAH 36,100, women – UAH 30,500. Chief specialists also have more than men. Of course, there are more of them, with men earning UAH 21,600 and women UAH 18,900. That is, men do have higher salaries. And it is interesting to look deeper, in more detail, in terms of different institutions, in terms of regions. I also looked at this in Kyiv.
For example, men in Kyiv have the highest salaries. And women in the Kyiv region have the highest salaries, while the lowest salaries for men are in Kherson, Donetsk, and I think Ternopil. That is, there is a very strong regional disparity in this regard. I think we will show this data and even try to give access to it in its entirety. Because with the data…
Roman
We have to work with it.
Viktor
No, we have a big problem with data. It’s about quality data. We have a lot of open data, but you can’t just take it and start analyzing and commenting on it without thinking. You’ll end up with a salary like that of a specialist in a classified department. Therefore, they need to be prepared and understood.
Roman
We are looking forward to this research. Dashboard. Now we have recorded the analytics in a gender breakdown and infographics are a must.
Viktor
We will make infographics. Because there is a lot of interesting information. For example, it is difficult for me to perceive by ear. It’s easier for me to look at a beautiful picture. It is fixed and easier to work with.
TOP-5 salaries of state secretaries in ministries
Roman
Yes. We have already talked about this partially. But I’m going back to the numbers. Before our recording, I also monitored the State Statistics Service a little bit and, unfortunately, there is no data for the 4th quarter, but I looked at the data for the third quarter. There may be some manipulation, because there are different aspects. For example, we understand that not everyone is paid officially. There are also many individual entrepreneurs, but I always try to rely on official data. And according to the State Statistics Service, in the third quarter, the average monthly salary in Ukraine was UAH 17,397. What do you think, Victor, about the idea that some top officials (you mentioned these phenomenal figures for some people, especially for people in the regions, at the beginning of our conversation. We’re not talking about Kyiv) get too much, especially during martial law? I fully agree that any work, especially when you have such responsibility and work in such conditions, should be rewarded. But here I will quote you: “if not for the war”.
Viktor
If not for the war. How much is a lot? This is a provocative question: for some people a lot is one amount, for others a lot is another amount. My position is very simple: civil servants should definitely get a lot. Because the best people should work in the civil service. Not those who somehow managed to get there, but really professional people. So I am definitely in favor of high salaries. Absolutely! But a person must be responsible. I am definitely against the fact that the members of the Accounting Chamber who do nothing, excuse me, miss half of the meetings, do not vote at them, do not write reports, but write… how to put it culturally… the quality of reports should be much better. Their salary is 175,000 UAH per month on average. I am definitely against this. But this is not a matter of position. This is a matter of personalities. And this is a question for the parliament: when you appoint people to such positions, you have to choose the best. So in this case, the salary to ensure their independence is high, it is very decent. It corresponds to their status and their level. Just choose the right people for these positions. Not as it used to be.
Figures. The Secretary of State’s figures for 2022. 2023, sorry, not yet. Because not all declarations have been submitted yet. After March, we can update the data and the dates. The state secretary at the Ministry of Strategic Industry earned the most in the ministries and in the sector in the position of “state secretary”, an average of UAH 143,000 per month. The State Secretary of the Ministry of Agrarian Policy and Food is on the 2nd place – UAH 122,000, and the State Secretary of the Ministry of Defense is on the 3rd place. The State Secretary of the Ministry of Economy is in 4th place. And in 5th place is the State Secretary of the Cabinet of Ministers – UAH 112,000.
Is it too much? There are state secretaries in this position, and there is the same position of chief of staff, just in this ministry, not in other departments. The NACP’s chief of staff is paid 260,000 UAH, or 259,000 UAH to be exact.
Roman
Could you explain to our viewers what is their functionality and what do they do? Not everyone understands what the Secretary of State is.
Viktor
These are people who manage civil servants of the entire ministry. What are they responsible for? They are responsible for the legal component, for ensuring that the office is in place, that everything is in order, for accounting and finance. In other words, they are not responsible for policy, but for the functioning of the institution itself and the people in it, they are responsible for recruiting people. This is their responsibility.
Roman
So they are also HR?
Viktor
Well, no, they are not. They have a special department, of course. But they are like heads of an institution. Because a minister is a political appointment. The minister is responsible for policy, for policy implementation. And this is a conditional person who is responsible for the civil service. So, the NACP has almost 260,000 UAH, which is an average monthly salary. You just have to multiply it by 12. But it’s easier to understand. In the Verkhovna Rada, the chief of staff earns UAH 245,000, in the National Electricity Regulatory Commission – UAH 180,000, in the Accounting Chamber – UAH 163,000, and the well-known Gambling Regulatory Agency is in 5th place – UAH 162,000, which they now want to cut and liquidate, having recently created it. This is how we live. We create some agencies and liquidate others. The main thing is that people get paid. What am I talking about? There are very large disparities in the same positions. For example, if we take the top 5, it is UAH 142 thousand and UAH 110 thousand. If we take the chief of staff, it’s UAH 260 thousand – UAH 160 thousand. There are also big disparities. I was very interested in this. I paid attention to the words of a fellow MP from the Verkhovna Rada who said: “We don’t get much in this way. You don’t, but the staff of the Verkhovna Rada, the leadership, do. The top 6 highest salaries at this level are three people from the Verkhovna Rada: the Chief of Staff and his deputies. In 2020, in 2021, and in 2023. The average salary increased by almost 45% during the war. In 2021, the salaries of the Verkhovna Rada leadership were in the range of UAH 156,000 – 186,000, the top three. In 2022, the war year, from UAH 200,000 to UAH 227,000. I think this is too much. My subjective point of view, I think it’s too much. That’s how it is. Of them, or what?
Roman
Then another provocative question. In one of our episodes, we said that if we don’t have enough money (and we already see that problems arise and may arise, given the political situation in our partners, in particular the United States), you, Victor, said that we would “cut”.
Viktor
We will cut.
Roman
It is the budget, its expenditures. Then the question is, first of all, what about these positions that have been announced and which, in my opinion, do not play the most important role? Are we going to start with them or not?
About the grade system
Viktor
The Ministry of Finance should be commended. Why? Because they did something that, in principle, is not their authority, but the authority of the National Agency of State Regulation of Taxation. They are starting to drive everyone into the grading system. The grading system will not allow such large disproportions. And everyone will have the same position, plus or minus the same salary. There will be no 100,000 here and 100,000 there per month. The government failed to persuade parliamentarians to include the Verkhovna Rada in the grade system. The law on the state budget says that a body that complies with the law is not subject to the grading system. That is, their salaries have been formed in a non-grade system and will continue to be formed in a non-grade system.
I really hope that next year the Ministry of Finance and the government will be able to come up with a unified approach to salaries in the government. If there are exceptions, then there should be either a separate law or some additional arguments, but it should be stated that your salary should be such and such or set a certain maximum level for the period of war. The way it used to be, people who worked in the civil service in agencies, in agencies at state-owned enterprises, they had an upper limit. The same is true now.
Roman
We’ve dealt with the secretaries of state. But here, Viktor, you are defending a lot of… At least you are saying that MPs do not earn much compared to those amounts, and ministers as well. And I completely agree, because they have a lot of responsibility, and they work like top managers. They would probably earn much more in the market.
Viktor
They would definitely earn much more. When I look at the salaries of individual ministers and deputies, and I know how they work 24/7, it’s definitely not objective. And when department directors in their institutions have 30-50% more than a minister, it’s definitely wrong. So, once again: The Ministry of Finance is doing a good job, they are trying to equalize the imbalances. Something works, something doesn’t. But not everything was done at once. So I hope that it will be effective. And you know, it’s not about imbalances, it’s about justice. In this case, it’s fair that a department director in a ministry cannot, relatively speaking, receive more than the minister, with all due respect to these people. It’s just not fair.
Roman
I agree completely, especially when you perform such managerial functions. But then let’s look at the ministers. We don’t have just one minister, we have many.
Victor
You suggest inviting them to visit.
Roman
Of course, we will! In particular, we will look at the functionality and calculate in detail how much a minister should earn. Thank you for raising the issue not only of the minister and his salary, but also of the staff. But I wonder how much each of them received in the first year of the war? And how did this change compared to the pre-war period? I mean the Minister of Finance, Culture, and Youth. Or did it depend on the areas?
Viktor
It definitely depends on the areas. For example, in the first year of the war, salaries ranged from 75,000 to 105,000 UAH per month. In 2021, their salaries ranged from 47,000 to 85,000 UAH. This is definitely not a decent salary for a first officer. They are working hard. Unfortunately, not everyone understands how much… These are strange decisions. Until we start telling the truth and not covering up the issue of management salaries and so on… that everyone should get a low salary. No! As long as they are paid low wages, they will feel unappreciated and will look for and think theoretically, if people without values, somewhere something…
Roman
I’ll interrupt again. The range was voiced here. I’m curious: what does this gradation, the “spread” of these salaries depend on?
Viktor
On bonuses. There are three main factors. The first is the official salary. They have the same plus or minus. Next is length of service. If you’re a young minister, you get a small bonus, if you’ve been in the civil service for 20 years in different positions, you get a bigger bonus. 2% for each year, but now it is no more than 30% of the official salary.
Roman
Are we going to stick to that? Not 70%?
Victor
Yes. Then there are various additional payments: “secret”, financial aid, something else and a bonus. Therefore, we need to look at the salary structure of each employee. We collected information.
Roman
Will there be a publication?
Viktor
There will be a publication. The only thing is that it’s a bit difficult to bring them together. You ask them to give you one format, one structure, and they each give you what they see. Some did not want to give. Hello, to the State Tax Service, which did not want to give it, so especially for you, dear acting head of the State Tax Service, we will make a publication, a separate section or separate analysis of all the declarations of your employees by region, what are the salaries of the State Tax Service by gender.
Roman
Hopefully, we will be seen.
Viktor
It will be interesting.
Roman
We have already mentioned a lot about the reform that came into effect on January 1. Also, when the state budget for 2024 was being considered and adopted, it included this reform of civil servants’ remuneration based on grades, which was mentioned earlier. I would like to understand in more detail what the essence is. Has a certain period of time passed since then, and what is the current stage of implementation?
Viktor
It is being implemented. There are institutions that have classified positions, and their employees, accordingly, receive salaries according to grades. There is an option that you may not accept or approve the classification of positions, so you will receive the same salary as last year under certain conditions. And there are institutions that have been removed from the grading system. These are the Verkhovna Rada, the NACP, and a few others. So, as far as I understand, most institutions have entered the grading system, and they are functioning according to it. But we need to look at their salary dynamics, including their reporting, and understand it in more detail.
Roman
Okay. Good point. But still, I cannot leave the issue of reform. I’m going to read out one comment – this is a quote. And you, Victor, will confirm or deny it, perhaps. It concerns local governments, which are my favorite. Here it is. In January, the head of the Lviv Regional State Administration, Maksym Kozytskyi, wrote the following column for Ekonomichna Pravda. You can all read it freely. And he noted that as a result of the wage reform, the income of his subordinates would fall from 36% to 50%. Thus, the chief of staff received 55,000 UAH, the head of the department – 35,000 UAH, the head of the department – 23,000 UAH. And the chief specialist will receive UAH 17,000. Then, starting in 2024, the chief of staff will receive UAH 27,000, and the head of department – UAH 18,000. And then it will be reduced in accordance with what the chief specialist will receive – UAH 11,000. Today, I’m sorry, this is below the average statistical salary that I announced. I have a question: how will the reform affect officials in local governments? We all know that there is a problem with personnel, and everyone has it. And even if we put aside this professionalism, there is also competition with the private market, etc. Please communicate with us.
Victor
That’s a great question. Let’s see what the declaration says. The head, 2022, the data is only for 2022, there is no 2023 yet, so sorry, colleagues. The chief of staff of the Lviv Regional State Administration earned 550,000 hryvnias in 9 months of 2022 (why 9 months? Because she was fired in early October this year). On average, this is almost the same amount as the head of the administration announced. But there is one caveat. The official salary for this position is almost UAH 13,000. That is, the fixed amount is 13,000 – the official salary. Everything else is other allowances, seniority, and given that Iryna Volodymyrivna – this is the name of the chief of staff – had only 2 years of civil service experience at that time. She got a small raise. I have a question: how did she get a salary of 55,000 hryvnias? Probably bonuses. Other allowances. I have this hypothesis – it may or may not be confirmed. They also receive two additional salaries: as financial assistance for social and domestic issues, as well as financial assistance for health improvement. That is, in fact, the 13th and 14th salary that civil servants receive annually. Another interesting aspect. If we look at the total funding for the salaries of the Lviv regional administration, which comes from the state budget, they had UAH 228 million in 2023 under the unreformed system. And when the grading system was introduced, they received UAH 406 million. So, friends, I have a question: you have almost 80% growth compared to the previous year, and you say that all your chief specialists will have a salary of UAH 11,000? I have a big question for Maxim Zinovievich. It seems to me that this is manipulation. He took the lowest level and the chief specialist out of context, and the salary of a chief specialist may depend and vary on the family of positions where he or she is. That is, it can be different. So the question here is: let’s look at the numbers and tell the truth that people who are policy makers and are not technical staff will definitely have more. I think that the 11,000 is a salary with nothing else. So it’s not quite correct.
Roman
Yes, I completely agree. And I can’t help but ask a final question and hear your expert answer. We’ve dealt with salaries. Professionalism is also important here, and, theoretically, if we imagine that there are enough resources and we raise everyone’s salary to market levels, given the economic situation, will the situation change dramatically? I’m not sure, personally, given all the complexity. But what steps should be taken now?
Viktor
Teach people, engage young people, give them the opportunity to practice. Young professionals who are in their senior years or have graduated from college are the best potential to be attracted to the civil service, because their eyes are burning, they have values. And they can become this new impetus. People who are older will pass on their experience and knowledge, and young people will be the driver and the energy that will go in the right direction.
Roman
That’s great. A very positive summary. Victor, thank you very much for this interesting and, I hope, informative conversation for our viewers. And to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, of course, for giving us the opportunity to continue recording, communicating and explaining complex things in simple language. Glory to Ukraine!
Viktor
Glory to the heroes! And, of course, I thank the defenders and the protectionKits for the opportunity to breathe in a free country. Thank you, Roman, for your interesting questions and provocations.
Roman
Stay tuned. The next episodes will be no less interesting. Listen to our podcast “Budget Talks” on all available platforms. Write your comments, like, subscribe and learn more about how our money is spent, because it is important. See you soon! Thank you, Viktor.
Viktor
Thank you very much. I’ll see you soon.
Roman
Good-bye.