The twelfth issue is about life in frontline Zaporizhzhia. How does the city, located 35 kilometers from the frontline, function? Why was free public transportation canceled in the third year of the war? Why are libraries and cultural centers in Zaporizhzhia now very popular? And what is planned to be done with the largest sculpture of Lenin in Ukraine?
In the new episode of the podcast “Budget Talks” you will find answers to these and other topical questions. Victor Maziarchuk, Head of the Center for Fiscal Policy Research, Roman Slobodyan, public finance expert, and Regina Kharchenko, acting mayor of Zaporizhzhia, discuss the challenges and problems faced by Zaporizhzhia since the beginning of the full-scale Russian invasion.
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ROMANE
Good afternoon, friends! We are glad to welcome you to our podcast “Budget Talks”, which is produced with the support of the International Renaissance Foundation. And today we will talk about local governments, namely Zaporizhzhia. And I would like to introduce my colleague, the head of the Center for Fiscal Policy Research, Viktor Maziarchuk.
VIKTOR
Hello, Roman. Good afternoon, Regina.
REGINA
Good afternoon.
ROMAN
And today we have with us the acting mayor of Zaporizhzhia, the secretary of the Zaporizhzhia City Council, Ms. Regina Kharchenko.
REGINA
That’s right, that’s me.
How Zaporizhzhia residents have adapted to constant anxiety
ROMAN
Our topic is “Budget Talks,” but I would like to start not with an economic or financial issue, but one that probably concerns the majority of Ukrainians. Zaporizhzhia is located very close to the front line, with rockets reaching it in 30-40 seconds. How have you adapted? And one more thing. You have been in office for 100 days. What are the most critical problems you have faced and what decisions have been made during this time?
REGINA
Alarms in Zaporizhzhia can sound for 8-10 hours a day. 8-10 hours out of my life.
ROMAN
Is it a series of alarms?
REGINA
With breaks, give or take. Anxiety can last 3.5 hours. And then it was really necessary to make a decision for any person, any family that stayed in Zaporizhzhia, how to live. Either to live in a shelter all the time, not to go to work, not to go about their business, not to see the “white world,” or to adapt. There are a lot of channels: “Radar Ukraine and others, so that we can understand whether this danger is really justified.
Few people go down to the shelters. In most cases, this desire arises when it has already arrived. People say: “Oh, I have to go down”. The only thing that worries me is that in most cases when there was massive shelling in Zaporizhzhia, it always happened at night. And they do it on purpose. At night or before morning – three or four o’clock. And this is a challenge. Sometimes, especially in early October 2022, there was a terrible period when a residential building was hit today, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow… And you go to bed and do not know whether you will wake up, whether you will be alive. Now we thank God, we thank the Armed Forces of Ukraine, that there are no such massive attacks, although the last one was not so long ago – from May 31 to June 1, the Dnipro hydroelectric power plant was hit, and the hit was very serious, critical. Part of the roadway was destroyed. Not to mention the fact that there had been hits to the engine room and buoys before that. “Ukrenergo said that it would take three years of constant construction and reconstruction to restore the Dnipro hydroelectric power plant. To restore the capacity that was there before the massive arrivals.
And even before the war, there were many reasons to say that it was necessary to block the Dnipro River for repairs. The issue of connecting the two banks is very important for Zaporizhzhia. Our entire city is actually crossed by the Dnipro River. The island of Khortytsia. And this connection is extremely important. That’s why people live in such conditions. Man is such a creature – he has to adapt, he has to live. I am very grateful to the people who are there. And now there are about 700,000 people in Zaporizhzhia, including about 134,000 internally displaced persons.
ROMAN
Are they from the Zaporizhzhia region?
REGINA
Most of them are from the Zaporizhzhia region, although more than 300,000 internally displaced people have passed through Zaporizhzhia since the beginning of the full-scale invasion.
About how the city became a hub for internally displaced persons
VIKTOR
Zaporizhzhia was a very big hub where everyone came to.
REGINA
Yes, it was a huge hub that welcomed people. People worked 24/7. Such points were organized at large shopping facilities at the entrance to the city. This story needs a separate program. I do not want to waste time. But we did go through some scary moments, which, perhaps for the better, united the team.
It was a huge challenge for me when the deputies made the decision and gave me this responsibility to be a representative of the community. I probably couldn’t sleep at all for the first three days. During every alarm, every worry, I told myself: what to do, what are we going to do, what if? And then, when we had the first such moments (again, at night), I realized how the team works, what our emergency response headquarters is, how the State Emergency Service is involved, how the heads of district administrations are involved, how utilities work, how everything happens. After that, I exhaled a little bit, because I realized that this story about helping after an emergency, no matter how terrible it is, is always a team effort. And I am very grateful to all my colleagues, maybe they will watch this “Budget Talk” with us, to every employee of Zaporizhzhia City Council, departments, district administrations, who are so trained, so dedicated. We have one head of a district administration who just arrived-four in the morning, two in the morning, it doesn’t matter-he gets in the car and drives.
ROMAN
Where does he go?
REGINA
To the place of arrival. I asked him why he was doing this. He said, “I have to know everything, I have to be the first.
VICTOR
I have to know how I can help people. It’s my responsibility.
REGINA
Yes, it is. And you realize that every such emergency (it’s scary to say this now) actually hardens you and gives you some experience of how to act. In Zaporizhzhia, the first story to emerge was about mobile teams and large buses that actually have a mini humanitarian and social headquarters. This bus leaves, and there are social security workers, psychologists, all the necessary first aid, water, clothes, blankets, depending on the time of year. All this was formed based on the problem we had to solve.
If we open the Law of Ukraine “On Local Self-Government” and read what we are supposed to do, it does not say that we have to eliminate the consequences of emergencies. But this is our responsibility, and we cannot pass it on to anyone else, because we have to help people who live in our cities. And I am sure that this is a very big challenge for every mayor, regardless of how old they are, what kind of education they have, what kind of experience they have. It’s scary because there are so many different cases.
On preparing shelters and education during emergencies
ROMAN
How is the situation with shelters in your area? For example, the mayor of Kharkiv, when visiting Finland, was inspired to build an underground city. How popular is this initiative in your region? Are there any similar plans? I saw some photos, and it looks like you have a shelter café. Could you tell us where this idea came from?
REGINA
Regarding shelters and the underground city idea—if we look at it rationally, of course, it’s easier for the mayor of Kharkiv to implement such a project since Kharkiv has a robust metro system. They even have underground schools within the metro. In Zaporizhzhia, we don’t have a metro. We don’t have such large areas where building an underground city would be feasible.
As for working with shelters, especially the simplest ones, it all started right from the beginning of the full-scale invasion. I remember gathering headquarters and, as deputies of our districts, talking to housing associations, saying: “Let’s start by looking at what you have in your basements, in the simplest shelters.” Then, of course, the local government got involved—educational institutions, municipal enterprises, schools, kindergartens, and industrial facilities. For example, in Zaporizhzhia, there is only one radiation shelter. Just one!
VICTOR
And it’s probably located at some large factory, right?
REGINA
Yes, exactly. You understand.
VICTOR
We remember the story from Mariupol when footage from the Mariupol Metallurgical Plant showed a fully equipped shelter with proper functioning and everything. Unfortunately, this is not only an issue in Zaporizhzhia but a major problem for all big cities.
REGINA
Of course, a map of the simplest shelters was created and updated several times. But if we talk about the task that, in my opinion, the city authorities managed to accomplish, it was organizing the shelters at municipal enterprises and institutions, especially schools. Schools do have shelters, although not all of them are designed for a large number of children. Some shelters can accommodate from 30 to 750 children.
What did we do? We started renovating the largest shelters that could simultaneously support education and provide protection for the general civilian population.
ROMAN
Was this funded by the local budget?
REGINA
Yes, of course, it was funded by the local budget. This active work started at the end of 2022. By 2023, we had about 43 schools operating in a mixed learning format, meaning they had proper safe places for protection. Now, our governor, Mr. Ivan Fedorov, has taken a stance on building six underground schools in Zaporizhzhia, following Kharkiv’s example. These schools will accommodate 500 students each, working in two shifts, thereby covering the needs of a thousand children. Medical institutions are also involved. Not all of them have robust shelters, depending on the size of the hospital, but some do. Even at the start, when there were no renovations and none of the required conditions like proper ventilation or emergency exits, Zaporizhzhia was the first in Ukraine to create a system of “Points of Invincibility” that later spread across the country.
What’s the largest network? It’s the network of educational institutions. Wherever possible, we ensured an adequate supply of food, medicine, drinking water, wood stoves, firewood, warm clothes, and blankets. Each school served as a support center. Plus, there were radios and communication devices because even displaced people from Mariupol said they didn’t know what was happening in the city or the country. From the beginning, understanding that we couldn’t immediately build new shelters, we focused on creating support points where residents from nearby apartment buildings or private sectors could come and get information, water, and medicine if needed. This system is still working. Every school serves as a “Point of Invincibility.”
VICTOR
Does the state provide funding for shelters—last year or this year?
REGINA
Yes.
About the Financial Situation and State Budget Funds
VICTOR
Has Zaporizhzhia received these funds from the state budget? Are you planning to receive them in the future? Are there any challenges with this?
REGINA
If we’re talking about shelters in schools, I’ll put it this way: the project documentation costs come from the local budget. When it comes to the actual work, it’s undoubtedly a state subsidy. There might be some co-financing from the local budget as well. But considering the context that Zaporizhzhia has a budget shortfall of 1.5 billion UAH, partly due to military personnel income tax going to the state budget, resources are very limited.
VICTOR
Did you request any funding from the state, or submit any project proposals?
REGINA
For example, when it comes to rebuilding destroyed houses, it’s the same story—project documentation is funded locally. We say, “Here’s our project, please, Reconstruction Agency, Ministry of Community Development, Territories, and Infrastructure, kindly…”—yes, everything is done properly. They ask every quarter: “Would you like to reduce anything?”
VICTOR
Reduce?
REGINA
Yes. We say: “No, we don’t want to.”
ROMAN
We want to increase it.
REGINA
Yes, we would like to increase it, but we understand that the budget problem at the local community level in a country that has been at war for three years will inevitably affect the state budget. We must independently allocate the available resources according to our needs.
VICTOR
Excuse me. The Reconstruction Agency says: “Maybe you’d like to reduce it?” And we usually respond: “We want to see how you’ve used them.” To facilitate this, we created a special platform where anyone can see how much money has been allocated and where it has been spent. For Zaporizhzhia region, nearly 5.5 billion UAH was planned, and 4 billion UAH has been spent, including on water pipelines. This refers to the large water pipelines in the Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhzhia regions.
REGINA
Yes, yes, including them.
VICTOR
You can see all the projects. It’s an interesting resource, and anyone can check not only Zaporizhzhia but other regions too.
REGINA
Great. Even I’m curious now.
VICTOR
We’ll show it later.
ROMAN
Then maybe a question: why weren’t these funds fully utilized?
VICTOR
That needs to be looked into. There are large sums, and a significant amount of money was left unused. I think it’s probably the city of Zaporizhzhia, but it’s from 2023. And it involves water pipelines—3.9 billion UAH.
REGINA
The water situation is actually quite complex. For example, there are no water issues in Zaporizhzhia itself. But if we’re talking about the Zaporizhzhia region, there are definitely problems, and people genuinely need help to change the situation.
VICTOR
Has the situation improved now compared to a year ago after Kakhovka?
REGINA
The water from the Dnipro River has receded significantly. Previously, when driving across Khortytsia Island, you’d see water—now you see rocks that used to be underwater, and new islands have formed. Plus, maybe due to the heat or some other factors, the water continues to recede gradually.
How Business Operates in a Frontline City
VIKTOR
Zaporizhzhia is a large industrial city, a huge one, located literally just 30-40 seconds away from shelling. How is business coping, and what has fundamentally changed? Are there any remarkable examples of businesses that have stayed despite everything?
REGINA
Since the start of the full-scale invasion, Zaporizhzhia has lost 180 business entities. These are mostly medium and small business entities—not individual entrepreneurs but legal entities. There were many issues, both at the beginning and continuing into 2023. One major problem was currency and settlement operations. Considering that the aggressor country officially claimed to have created some kind of “Zaporizhzhia region” and included it among the subjects of the Russian Federation, many people involved in import-export couldn’t convince their foreign counterparts that the city of Zaporizhzhia, the regional center, is part of Ukraine.
Then we had issues with property rights registers as well. If I’m not mistaken, this was in March 2023 when the registers were repeatedly closed and reopened. People didn’t understand what was happening. Naturally, when it comes to long-term development, those businesses that had the opportunity to relocate and understood where they were relocating to, and what preferences they would receive there, left.
At the same time, Zaporizhzhia was, is, and I really hope will remain one of the largest and most powerful industrial cities. Large enterprises with significant production capacities, industrial land plots, and facilities have stayed. In fact, it is largely thanks to their contributions that we are surviving now. Recently, we prepared an informational note (by the way, people themselves requested it and said: let’s thank the business entities that are filling the budget), and we pointed out that some business entities paid 350 million hryvnias into the budget over 5-6 months. Others paid a bit less, but their contributions were also substantial—157 million, 100 million, 75 million hryvnias. And let’s not forget that taxes are already a consequence. For us, for local self-government, and for any city, what is most important? It’s the people.
VIKTOR
People who have salaries.
REGINA
Yes, people who work, who go to their jobs, who support their families, who have the financial ability to go out, shop, pay, or travel. In other words, the very movement of life is essential. And let’s be honest: large enterprises still strive to work with official employment, white salaries, and all the taxes, which, undoubtedly, benefits local self-government. This is good, and we thank them for that. But we are also eagerly waiting for those who left to return. We have a system of business crediting with interest rates of 5-7-9%. Moreover, we have a city program that existed even before martial law, where we reimburse interest payments for business loans.
VIKTOR
For businesses located within the city?
REGINA
Yes, absolutely. In 2024, we plan to reimburse such interest payments for business entities in the amount of 1.2 million hryvnias. It’s not a lot, but it’s not insignificant either.
VIKTOR
It’s not insignificant, especially for a small organization that might need to purchase goods or something else.
REGINA
At the same time, speaking of business, there are still many military personnel in Zaporizhzhia—some live here, others visit, with or without families. They still use catering establishments and various services. In the evenings, life is bustling on the main avenue, and new small coffee shops are opening. People gladly visit them. Many businesses, especially at the beginning of the war, were engaged in volunteer activities—providing free meals, delivering food to Territorial Defense Forces, and collecting aid. They deserve immense gratitude and respect for that.
My stance has always been and will remain the same—as a former tax officer, as a lawyer who protects businesses from tax authorities, as a deputy, and as an acting official: businesses should only pay taxes—nothing more. Sometimes businesses feel hurt by the city council and say: create super conditions for us, give us all your municipal premises for 1 hryvnia. We say: great, we love that idea too, but there is the Law of Ukraine “On the Lease of State and Municipal Property.” If we do that, we’ll all end up in prison—not you, but us. So let’s think this through. They say: go for business preferences. But as a city manager, I also understand that I am interested in ensuring that the budget of my community does not suffer.
VIKTOR
So that I can make payments.
REGINA
Exactly. And what’s the difference, for example, whether you rent this space from a private individual who will also demand compensation for inflation losses? I, as a person interested in using the community’s resources efficiently and effectively, have to think about that as well. That’s why they sometimes feel a bit resentful about this issue.
VIKTOR
Nobody wants to pay taxes, but everyone wants to get some extra perks.
REGINA
That’s not okay.
ROMAN
Continuing on this topic: we understand that large businesses find it hard to relocate. But the focus is also on small and medium-sized businesses, including sole proprietors (FOPs) who pay a single tax that goes directly to the local budget. What programs have the local authorities managed to implement? How else are you supporting small and medium-sized businesses?
REGINA
Speaking of FOPs, let me tell you about an unusual trend…
ROMAN
Are they opening up?
REGINA
Yes, in 2023, the number of sole proprietors increased compared to 2022, and even compared to 2021.
ROMAN
Is that thanks to the local authorities?
REGINA
I’d like to think so, but I’m not sure. Regarding FOPs and small businesses, honestly, I don’t really know what to answer. The only thing is that we are doing our best to promote and publicize all available community resources as openly as possible. We have premises, land plots, auctions—please take them, use them. We even developed a special, well, not an app, but our municipal enterprise that manages these premises created a separate section on the website—vacant premises for rent. You can find spaces ranging from 10 square meters to 500. Go ahead, take them, transparently, through an auction, if needed. For us, this is also a heavy burden because we have to maintain them and pay for utilities. That’s a problem. In fact, local businesses face challenges…
How Soviet Cultural Centers Turned into “Indomitable Hubs”
REGINA
Yes, because it’s really convenient, and you don’t have to constantly move yourself in and out of shelters. Plus, I want to point out something about the shelters. I think it’s a really great achievement. We have old palaces of culture, cultural centers. And, thankfully, they have large shelters. Well, they used to have them. They were terrifying basements, run down to a horrible state.
Now, in Zaporizhzhia, we have two amazing places that we call “Indomitable Hubs.” One is the “Indomitable Hub” based at the Orbita Cultural Center, and the other one is Titan, based at the Titan Cultural Center. These are huge spaces that have been renovated, equipped with ventilation. They have a minimalist style, similar to our studio now. All public events are held there, and there’s a scheduled calendar of training sessions and presentations organized by public organizations. People book the space two months in advance because it’s so popular. It’s absolutely fantastic!
VICTOR
Were they funded by the local budget?
REGINA
Yes, they were funded by the local budget—the project and the shelters themselves. Plus, this year, we are getting a third “Indomitable Hub” funded by UNICEF. It’s located in a different district. While the first two are more central, this one will be based at the large Khortytskyi Cultural Center. This third hub will cover a thousand square meters and will include the “Indomitable Hub” itself, an art school branch, and some regular classrooms.
VICTOR
We’re going back to the past when cultural clubs were the gathering centers for people…
REGINA
That’s exactly how it is.
VICTOR
What else is currently a priority for the city?
Top Three Priorities of Zaporizhzhia
REGINA
There will always be a lack of resources in the community. It will never be enough for a complete modernization of public utilities — that would require billions of hryvnias. We have chosen three directions: the “European Avenue,” veteran policy, and the “Zaporizhzhia Cultural Code.” These are not directly related to the essential functioning of the city, nor to addressing the consequences of emergencies or supporting the Armed Forces of Ukraine. By the way, since the beginning of the year, the Zaporizhzhia City Council has allocated 368 million hryvnias to support the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
VICTOR
We sincerely thank the Armed Forces for that.
REGINA
I don’t think we need to thank anyone for this. But we do need to acknowledge that we understand it’s also our duty and responsibility to make sure they have everything they need. We are doing everything we can to make that happen. Now, let’s get back to the key concepts of Zaporizhzhia. The “European Avenue” is actually quite a simple idea, but it’s very effective. Zaporizhzhia is a beautiful city, and our main avenue, which was once called Lenin Avenue and is now Sobornyi Avenue, is a significant architectural heritage site. It’s an impressive architectural ensemble and a historic monument. The buildings were constructed starting in 1951, and they are truly beautiful.
At some point, however, something went wrong in our city. We started seeing air conditioners, balconies, advertising signs — all sorts of things that completely cover and ruin this cultural ensemble. Plus, there’s been an influx of temporary structures, so-called “small architectural forms” (MAFs). Maybe for some small businesses, it’s acceptable to make these cheap, thrown-together booths and sell low-quality goods that are in demand — cash only. Okay. But for the city, in the context of the overall concept, it just doesn’t look good.
What are we doing now? We are removing everything unnecessary that can be removed. We are designating specific areas on the avenue with a total moratorium on installing any temporary structures. Just no way. This also includes removing all signage and unclear advertising. Everything has already been planned out, and the requirements are very detailed: from signage and benches to trash cans and facades. It’s all defined. The problem is that no one is following it. So our task is not so much to invest resources as it is to be extremely meticulous in ensuring compliance.
Veteran Policy. Undoubtedly, we face a great demand and a major challenge here because we need to work not only with the returning and demobilized servicemen but also with their families, who, unfortunately, often find themselves in difficult situations. Besides the families of fallen heroes and defenders, there are those who have to deal with challenges related to the status of “servicemen missing under special circumstances.” This also requires support, and we need to work with these people.
One thing we would really like from the state is support in establishing a unified veteran policy. Right now, every city is trying to do something, but we don’t fully understand what exactly is needed and how to piece it all together. Yet, we must take action.
Third — “Zaporizhzhia Cultural Code”. Our goal is to make this concept popular.
Perhaps you don’t know, but Zaporizhzhia was the first city to carry out a comprehensive reform of all libraries. Our libraries are now coworking spaces for both children and adults. We no longer have the Soviet-era system of separate libraries for adults and children. I still remember the children’s library I went to as a student — it was a horrible basement room with dusty shelves, old chairs, and a grumpy old lady who seemed to hate the kids. Now… just google it! I don’t want to boast, but our libraries are completely different. They are bright, welcoming, and multifunctional spaces where people actually want to spend time.
About library reform and saying goodbye to Soviet heritage
ROMAN
So, are there no libraries left in the Soviet style?
REGINA
None.
ROMAN
Victor, let’s go to Zaporizhzhia and check?
VICTOR
Let’s go. I actually saw one recently.
REGINA
It’s the best place, really… And we just opened a new one at the beginning of June.
VICTOR
I even know why that is. Because every time I look at Regina’s profile, I see her always with a book. Fantastic, I just can’t…
ROMAN
Did you reform it?
VICTOR
No, it wasn’t me who reformed it. It’s just that every time I see Regina’s profile, there’s always a book.
REGINA
But I should note that, besides being a library, this space also serves as an art school, and there are areas for children’s events. Socialization is really important. For younger preschool kids, we have modeling, drawing, English classes, and some extra activities. All of it is free.
VICTOR
Funded by the local budget?
REGINA
Of course. And every district has a location like this, where even during wartime, you can take a child by the hand, bring them, and say: look, it’s a nice space, a new library collection, good books. My son goes there because I just got tired of buying him books, so I say…
VICTOR
…go to the library.
REGINA
Yes! Go to the library.
ROMAN
Make use of the benefits.
REGINA
Exactly! Seriously.
VICTOR
Jokes aside, but just today, on my way to work, I passed by a city library and saw a little stand with books…
REGINA
Bookcrossing, yes.
VICTOR
…and I thought: the library sphere is developing, and it’s great that children read, adults read, that they have a place not just to be, but maybe to switch off a bit from…
REGINA
Yes, to switch off.
VICTOR
…from the current situation that surrounds us all.
REGINA
By the way, let me brag one last time: in Zaporizhzhia, we have the only inclusive library, with proper accessibility for people in wheelchairs and suitable restrooms. So, welcome.
ROMAN
Are there generators as well?
REGINA
Absolutely. We’re fully equipped with generators, we prepared in advance. The only issue is with fuel, as it is for everyone.
How the City's Life Changed Without Military PIT
ROMAN
Since this is the “Budget Talks” podcast, I can’t help but ask one more question about the budget. You’ve already touched on it earlier. My favorite topic is the military Personal Income Tax (PIT). I have this habit of going around communities and asking how it has affected them. So, I’d like to ask you as well. You mentioned that it significantly impacted revenue and cut expenditures when it was removed last year. What specific expenditures were reduced or limited? And if you listen to the Ministry of Finance, they say: look, let’s take 2021 and compare it to 2023. And, like most people, I can go to the “Open Budget” website and see how much was actually collected in 2021 and how much is planned for 2023. And, in principle, the figure is higher. So I’m curious, what are the reasons for this? Maybe you can explain.
REGINA
I’ll put it this way — this issue has hit us very hard. If we look at our budget for 2021 and 2023, even without military PIT, they are roughly the same — around 8 billion, give or take. But let’s look at the prices. It’s like comparing a minimum wage of 6,000 hryvnias now to what you could buy with 6,000 hryvnias back in 2021 versus 2023. It’s the same in local self-government. This year is the first year where we didn’t include a development budget at all when forming the budget. We subsidized municipal enterprises’ salaries — some for six months, some for nine months. I clearly remember when Viktor told us about the budget, theoretically stating that municipal enterprises are economic entities that should generate revenue. They provide services to the population, make money, and say: look, not only are we self-sufficient and able to dress and feed ourselves, but we also earn for the city. But the reality with municipal enterprises is just critical. They are all subsidy-dependent; they don’t even have enough funds for salaries. We’re not even talking about fuel, development, repairs, equipment, or machinery — that’s completely out of the question.
ROMAN
And all of this is financed from local budgets.
REGINA
Absolutely. Plus, local budgets also finance salaries for doctors who work in municipal non-commercial enterprises that cannot sign enough packages with the National Health Service of Ukraine (NHSU) to ensure proper functioning. Subsidies from the local budget are needed. The same applies to education. That’s why in 2023, there were talks about closing hospitals. We didn’t close them — we optimized them. We merged additional facilities into one powerful hospital and said: look, this way, there will be more money from the NHSU, and you will be able to…
VIKTOR
…secure more packages.
REGINA
Exactly. You will be more competitive. You understand, that’s a big advantage. Things have calmed down a bit, but still… It’s tough, to be honest. The budget level is more or less the same, but we are not even talking about development. Everything related to development — we owe a huge thank you to international partners, organizations, and donors. Anything new, whether it’s equipment, assistance, repairs, or new projects — it’s all thanks to them.
For example, UNICEF funded 11 shelters in schools. USAID, since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, has provided over 90 million hryvnias specifically to the Zaporizhzhia community.
VIKTOR
But that’s not cash — it’s equipment and machinery.
REGINA
Yes, yes, it’s not cash. And thank God! We don’t need cash because otherwise, people would start saying we stole it or bought the wrong thing or bought it at inflated prices. We don’t need that. Please, just spare us. Though the need still remains. For example, when you visit a municipal enterprise like “Kobra,” they might say: “Buy us a vehicle.” You see that their car is from 2001, all crooked and worn out, and it’s genuinely needed. Instead, we bring them uniforms and helmets. I see these drivers thinking: “Why do we need helmets? Just give us a new vehicle.” And then you start looking around, telling everyone: “We need a vehicle.” There are just so many needs. It’s challenging because we don’t earn money from anything. Our story is about performing a social function. Public transport — that’s another disaster.
Let me briefly tell you about it. Last year, “Zaporizhzhia Electrotrans” cost us 700 million hryvnias.
VIKTOR
Is that a subsidy?
Why Free Public Transport Was Canceled
REGINA
Alright. Let me explain why. At the beginning of the full-scale invasion, the previous administration made a decision (and I’m not criticizing it, I’m not saying it was wrong) to introduce free travel on “Electrotrans” vehicles. That was okay. People were in panic mode. Listen, there was a war outside, missiles flying. It was a necessary step. But the entire year of 2022, all of 2023, we already had a prepared regulatory act saying: let’s set the fare at 10 hryvnias. In Lviv, it costs 20 hryvnias to take a trolleybus, but here it’s free. And people are still living in the paradigm that something is free. There’s no such thing as a free service—someone always pays for it.
VICTOR
And if 700 million hryvnias are allocated to this enterprise, it means that 700 million didn’t go to schools, healthcare, shelters, and so on.
REGINA
Exactly! The condition of the vehicles, honestly speaking, is in desperate need of repair and renewal. Back in 2016, we started the project of new large buses in Zaporizhzhia. It was really cool. Choosing between a tiny minibus and a large municipal bus… Sure, it’s slower, but you can get on it with a bike, a stroller, and there’s air conditioning. Now, we have a long route from one district to another—around 12-14 kilometers—and the fare is 10 hryvnias. We canceled the free ride policy and said: look, 10 hryvnias across the board—buses, trams, trolleybuses. All municipal transport—10 hryvnias. Of course, let’s be honest, 10 hryvnias is not an economically justified fare. The economically justified fare is around 26-34 hryvnias. I was in Berlin for the first time in my life, and how much does a bus ride cost? 3.5 euros. And I thought: I could ride around Zaporizhzhia for two months on that money.
VICTOR
I’d probably just walk.
REGINA
Well, not for two months, but… And I think people are willing to pay a reasonable price for a service if it’s of good quality.
ROMAN
Absolutely, 100%. And they can see what they’re paying for.
REGINA
They are willing. I personally used public transport for a long time, and I always said that these minibuses are an insult to human dignity. You can arrive at the stop looking nice, well-dressed, and smelling good. But once you get on, you just feel…
VICTOR
Like you’ve just had a rough massage.
REGINA
It’s not even that. I was already a deputy by then, and some of our minibuses had seats that were literally chewed up—just a bare board with nothing to sit on. We had to tell people: take pictures, file complaints. Although, let’s be honest, even for private carriers charging 12 hryvnias, it’s also not an economically justified fare. Plus, we understand that martial law, mobilization—they’re not thrilled about it. The number of vehicles on routes has decreased, and we’ve noticed it too. Social unrest. People are standing in queues, unable to get on, unable to travel. They are surviving as well. We don’t want to criticize them too harshly right now, but they must fulfill their function.
We’re actively fighting for cashless payments. We’ve already launched a sufficient number of trams and trolleybuses where this is possible. Please, let’s make it all work smoothly. By the way, as soon as we reinstated paid rides, “Zaporizhzhia Electrotrans” reported an additional 6 million hryvnias in revenue in the first month. That’s 6 million hryvnias that can fully fund the reconstruction of an old tram, turning it into a beautiful “candy.”
Moreover, the advantage of our enterprise, “Zaporizhzhia Electrotrans,” is that they can do it themselves. They say: look, if we do it on our own, it will cost four million. If we hire contractors from Lviv, it will be six and a half. We’re ready to do it for our salary because we have the equipment and everything we need—we’ll handle it.
VICTOR
And the money stays in the city.
REGINA
Of course, in the city. It’s their salaries, their bonuses, yes, yes. Therefore, we just wanted to get back to… Local self-government. We understand that even during wartime, the primary task of local self-government is to provide the population with a minimum set of social services: infrastructure, hospitals, schools, roads, parks, amenities—just to maintain everyday life. City communities don’t always have the resources to cope with these tasks, let alone make money from assets. Although we strive to do our best. We hold transparent auctions, and at every meeting, we say: be open, clear—if people want to buy something, let them. By the way, we’re selling the Lenin monument, and no one’s buying it, by the way. Advertise it so someone would buy Lenin from us.
The Biggest Bronze Lenin Is Up for Sale
VICTOR
A Lenin monument is up for sale.
REGINA
19 tons of bronze. The largest sculpture in Ukraine.
VICTOR
19 tons. Colleagues, if anyone needs bronze, buy the Lenin monument.
REGINA
Please do. We put it up for auction—it was lying around after being dismantled in 2016. It’s been sitting at a municipal enterprise for 8 years. I asked, “Why is it just lying there?”
VICTOR
What’s the current price for bronze?
ROMAN
Nobody really needs Lenin.
REGINA
Unfortunately.
VICTOR
Fortunately! Let them take it for bronze, melt it down.
REGINA
We don’t mind. We put it up for auction with a book value of over 10 million hryvnias. No buyers. Had to lower the price.
VICTOR
Picky buyers.
VICTOR
600 hryvnias per kilogram of bronze. How much is that?
REGINA
19 tons.
VICTOR
19 tons… how much is that…
REGINA
Yeah, multiply it. Oh, I’m curious myself. But we’re not selling it as scrap value. We’re selling it as…
VICTOR
Can it be melted down?
REGINA
An ensemble. Do whatever you want with it.
VICTOR
11,400,000 hryvnias.
REGINA
Super.
ROMAN
On that positive note, thank you so much for your time and participation. It was very interesting and easy to follow. I personally felt like I took a little trip to Zaporizhzhia. Now I have double the motivation to go there with Viktor, check out the libraries, and clean up the parks. So once again, thank you. I hope we meet again—if not in Kyiv, then in Zaporizhzhia.
REGINA
We’ll be waiting.
ROMAN
And we’ll record another episode. Viktor, thanks for the discussion, the likes, the subscriptions, as always. And for your time. And, of course, we can’t forget our soldiers, who give us the opportunity to record such interesting podcasts for our audience. Thank you! Glory to Ukraine!
REGINA
Glory to the heroes!
VICTOR
Glory to the heroes! Thank you for your time and an interesting conversation, and of course, thank you to the defenders for allowing us to breathe freely in a free country.
REGINA
I also want to thank Viktor, first and foremost. We’ve been friends since 2021. I’m grateful for the knowledge, because it’s really important, and for the conversations. I also thank you for the story about “Budget Talks.” It’s a way to explain in simple terms what’s happening in the country, what’s happening in local governance, and how every person in this country can influence these processes. Thank you, it was a pleasure.
ROMAN
See you next time.
REGINA
See you.